Hey guys!

I say your group on youtube, I think you guys are taking Dag to the next level of tactics.

I've been watching the Dag seen for some years now and even hosted some of my own events with friends.

I'm posting here because you're one of the first groups I've seen that is fighting with medieval tactics and equipment with a western model of combat (Western Europe). Where the individuals fight as a "Unit" rather then the ad havoc style of "barbarians" fighting as individuals for personal gains.

The only other group that fights with a western style, that I know of, is the Dagorhir unit Rome, but their Roman, so it does not count ^^ If you suit up in Roman gear you can't not fight western. We're talking medieval

Ok, enough props.

Lets talk turkey. <--- Does anyone know what that means?!?!?!


I want to talk about information I've found over the years of researching medieval and other eras combat tactics and technology with you guys, bounce ideas back and forth and see if any of them might be helpful in Dag.


I'll start with something I've only ever hear of once in a documentary, but when I researched it farther (Because it's awesome) I couldn't find anything about it, anywhere.


Most battles fought with bladed weapons would have Battle Pulses, meaning that the two army's would smash together followed by about 15-30 secs of fierce combat then the front line troops would pullback just outside stabbing rang to rest before slamming into one another again, the army that could have the training/courage to preform the most pulses would win the battle, the losing army being unwilling to attack again and so being pushed back by the winning army until rout.

The really interesting bit I found----> The Romans would employ a really interesting maneuver where the front rank would smash into the opponents stabbing and slashing 15-30 secs like normal, but when the pulse ended and the front ranks pulled back, the Romans second rank would switch out with the front rank, the former front rank moving to the back most of the gang and would get something to drink, get another pilum (throwing spear) to launch once closer and a new shield or sword if needed.
The maneuver would repeat for every pulse, thus having a fresh troop at the front at all times.

It would also serve like the Hockey strategy used by the USA Hockey team vs the Russians in the 1980 Winter Olympics, USA's coach knew that the Russians were better on the ice, but the USA team wanted to win more, with the game tied 3-3, it was getting close to the the end of the last period, USA's started switching out every US players as fast as they could, each player was only on the ice for 30 secs, meaning that they only had 30 secs to score a goal or defend, they put everything they had every time they went out knowing they would only have around 30 secs to do what they could. By the way, USA wins, not like I had to say that (^-^)

The Roman legionary knew that he could totally ware himself out in 15-30 secs knowing that he would be switched to the back of the gang to rest and recharge. The front of the gang would always be fresh where the enemy's front line would be getting worn down until is was killed off.


In Dagorhir I've notice that there is a lack of battle pulses, save the first charge/contact, then the army's move back forming a shield wall and stand outside or just inside the apposing army's spear/sword rang, then the 'individual' bursts in to do some stabbing and slashing and seams most of the time he/she is cut down because he/she is bursting in as an individual and is attacking a shield wall with 4+ enemy who are in weapons reach.

How would a battle pulses in Dagorhirs work?: I've only done testing with a small group of people doing other maneuvers like the Roman Turtle and Viking shield wall push cadences, along with mass archer fire with Dagorhir arrows. I've never had enough people to do a battle pulses with front rank switching, so you're guess is as good as mine to how it would work with Dag.

On paper the idea is that instead of the 'individual' bursting in, the whole unit would:

Preform the initial charge/contact with the enemy line like normal.

Move back outside of spear/sword rang and form a shield wall like normal.

Now, as a unit pulse forward for a few seconds of combat.
I think 5-10 secs would be about right for Dag, because of cardio levels (I've taught Krav Maga, 5-10 secs is a long time going full out ^^) also the speed at which the lite foam weapons can travel. Not 100% sure on the length of time, needs field tested.

After 5-10 secs of full out combat, move back as a unit.
The enemy wall might be pushed back some after every pulse thus flanking or braking though the center of their wall possible (the goal of the Roman army if not a straight up routing of the enemy by shoving the enemy back). If the enemy keeps moving back after each pulse, moving your unit back might not be needed, pulsing forward then holding as the enemy falls back out of rang.

After Moving out of sword/spear rang, switch out the front rank with the second, form up the wall again.
I've noticed that you guys like fighting with spearman in the back row, which I think is awesome, so say there is three ranks, the front two are swordsmen and the third is spearman, the front rank would switch with the second rank and not with the third.

Pulse again and repeat ^^


I'm going to stop typing now before my hands fall off ^^
I have other ideas from information I've found over the years, but I think this post is long enough ^^

If this is something you guys think might be good for Dag, let me hear your ideas. ^^ If you don't, then... don't post, hahah! JK


Again, I like you're unit cohesion!

>>>---------])>

About battle pulses and the lack of them on the Dag field. The gist of things here in Dagorhir is that we have our battle pulses by dying. Since we get to get back up off the ground after we're killed we don't have to worry about being tired. We fight and then when we're done we go have a snack and chill. It's a nice idea to rest but since our livelihoods aren't dependant on the outcome of our battles we can afford to fight till we're exhausted or just for a bit.

that sounds like a very cool idea. i would love to see the battle pulses taking place. it would be a lot better than the toilet bowl effect that goes on.

Like Richard said, exhaustion is not a problem in Dagorhir, especially seeing as 90% are out of shape (myself included). I think one advantage of the pulse idea might be it's application as a feint. Some but not all of the enemy will surely follow, and that will spread them out for slaughter.

If you want to really simulate this the best thing you can do is to have a lot of light snacks and somewhat cold drinks available at the shade post where we rest between battles. With the number of members we have I don't think it's unreasonable to have two people carry a cooler with drinks in it to the field. Having a good supply of refreshment would give us a fighting edge that others wouldn't be able to keep up with. However, that's not tactics at all at that point that's strategy.

Yea! It would get the rest of the field to take notice of the awesomeness! For sure.
I think recruitment would go up.



I think you have something here, it would be hard for the enemy to keep track of they're place in line if their attention is on the pulses in front of them.

What about moving at oblique angels, like back and 45o to the left or right, still facing front, by moving further and further it could produce a concave where the line would rap around the enemy's flank.



Awesome! Haha. If I get a draft horse and wagon with a giant barrel of ale in it, You'll get first dibs to drive it, ^^
Well once the battles get big enough, canteens might be something to talk about.




lol. We always had people dead in real life at the end of my events? Is that not normal? I mean it's a bit hard to get new recruits if a caveat is "You might die" lol ^^

Maybe switching out the front rank do to fatigue is not enough of a problem, though once the battles get long like Civil War reenactments, it may be.
What about switching because of broken shields? Though I imagine it would be more naturally to move to the second rank without prompting while no longer having a shield.



I would guess one of the main benefits of a pulse would be you got to pick when the lines engaged and at what timing, they would have to keep dealing with the constant attacks and their battlefield awareness would go down. It would keep them on the back foot, per say.
It would give control of the rhythm of the battle to the aggressors, thus sending flanker or softening with centralized archer fire.


Brilliant stuff!

I think a pulse would be affective when our spears have eliminated the enemy spears and reds, or if the numbers get thin on their side. I find only very rarely does my shield ever get broken, maybe once each Ragnarok. I tend to bait a red user into swinging and mostly have them chop up the ground until a spear can kill them if they have any protection. I personally believe most tactics can be effective on the Dagorhir battlefield they just need to be changed a bit to fit our rules instead of realities rules.

From what I read, pulsing mainly happens in castle battles or any battle in close quaters. Out on the open field it's less likely to happen. However, if we can find a way to make these battle pulses work on a big scale, we could be working on someting that would change the way dagorhir fights. If we can perfect this, it will give us a huge advantage over other units. We just need to make it happen so that we don't die.