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 Post subject: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:31 pm 
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Squire
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:26 pm
Posts: 17
I've said it a thousand times and never even budged on the issue, other than a weak attempt at the end of freshman year. I want to start a Templar unit. I moved away from MD, up to NYC, and back down to VA, so at least I guess I'm lucky I didn't start one in NY.

My goal, which seems ambitious due to my thorough lack of initiative, is to, at the bare minimum, have everything prepared to start a unit by the end of November. If that's all I've gotten done by then, though, I'll be pretty angry with myself. What I need from you guys is a cost estimate. I've got a preliminary list of stuff that I want to have. If I get an overstock, awesome. If I'm understocked, let the weapons-making sessions begin. Here's the stuff that I'm planning to get/build:

10 blues (The deck is going to be COVERED in glue by the end of that)
A couple greens
A red (Hopefully by the end of the 10 blues I'll be able to make a semi-stable one)
2 shields
5 tabards (I might try to leech some of those off of you guys)
One flag

Also keep in mind I probably have minimal building instruments (Cutting stuff, glue, gloves), so throw that in there somewhere. If any of you can actually give me an estimate from that list, you've won the love of a squire. Meaning that the ballista fodder respects you. Don't you feel all special and stuff?

Yours literally,
-Packrat


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:27 pm
Posts: 143
Location: Baltimore
10 swords
Awesome sword tutorial:
http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=14633.0
these will probably run you ~$3-5 a piece maybe less since you are building 10 all at once

Greens,
Daggers you can do based on the narnian tutorial probably with left overs from the swords and some couch foam, look for free open cell from people who are getting rid of couches.
Spears, cores are the major cost if you want decent ones so its best to get in on an order.

red
don't know sorry

shields
really varies with the type, if you go round shields you can get 8 28" round shields out of one sheet of 3/8"ths plywood, cut 8 2' circles and once they are padded they will be 28". Kite shields yield a smaller number per sheet of wood. If you are going boogie board you need one board per shield, I think the whole sheet of plywood will probably cost less than a boogie board.

Sorry I didn't really give you exact prices there but really need to know what specifics you are planning.

_________________
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
"By the power of truth, I, a living man, have conquered the universe."


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:42 am 
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Knight
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 312
Make the sword's like Frontinus said. It looks like it'll cost ~$71. Maybe make 5 instead?

Shields, I'd make heater shields because those are allowed and therefore count for Sergeant-dom. I got an 8ft for $40 (I got 3/8" but get 1/2") and they will cut it into 2ft boards. From there just make shields 30-36" and you should be good. Plan on a blue foam roll for each. Maybe one and a half. Then you need straps. Old belts work or wander around the hardware store until you find something you like. I use these tow cables. At least $66-80+

Dagger made with left overs can be just the cost of duct tape. Maybe open cell (look for computer boxes, they sometimes still have good open cell)

I have some spar spear cores, but they will cost you $14 each and that is really the cheapest they get. And while red swords can be effective in a skirmish they are useless on a line. Unfortunately, glaives are expensive so I'd table this one until you drum up enough interest to get a large online order. Plus, with a glaive I'd use expensive foam so it passes more consistently. Spears I'd guess at $30-35 each. A glaive can easily be $60-75 depending on blade and quality of foam (again, you want good foam for it) If your school has a marching band you probably could get some pole through them.

I cut with a standard utility knife and Wolfgang prefers a saw. I don't use gloves but he does. The best glues are DAP for core to core, Super 77 for foam to foam, and Super 90 for open cell to foam.

Tabards again range. You can make a gen 1 for like $5 in about ten minutes or you can make one of mine via a pattern for $30 plus the cost of the pattern and spend nine hours hemming and hand stitching the cross.

Also, being a leader of the unit does not mean you have to supply everyone with everything. Make tabards, but make them as you are upgrading yours. As a leader you should be pushing everyone to improve and to lead by example. And also what you have should be dependent on how many people you have. I mean, if you have five people heaters and blues are all you really need. Twenty or more (please do) then you should get a good mix of towers and spears. And a few heaters for the flankers.

_________________
I sacrifice myself for the greater glory of God, for the honor of the chapter.
I kill for the greater glory of Mankind, for the honor of my masters.

Gloria propter victoriam, victoria propter mortem.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:26 pm
Posts: 17
Exactly what I needed and more. I was going to hold off on the polearms, except for maybe attempting a spear as I know where I can get a good free core. And yeah, 5 swords sounds much more viable.

Question about the heater shields. What are they made of? Because I thought a couple of them had a solid wood core with only a layer of foam. Is the wood bought curved and then cut? Or did you just buy the wood pre-shaped. Little confused on that.

Tabards. They're definitely going to be gen 1. Depending on how long sewing one cross takes me I might do less than 5. Truly, like you said, I don't have to have everything ready and running for them. The more I get them involved and willing to work on their stuff, the better.

I have 0 idea of how many people I can grab, because the soccerjocks (85% of my 14-person junior class) already rejected it. I'm hoping to grab a large base from the tons of colleges in the area (Four that I know of) as I honestly wouldn't trust most of the highschoolers here to be mature enough. Granted I was in 8th grade when I started, so I'll try to be lighthanded with discrimination. I'll probably set the age limit at 16 for safety's sake.

If any of you, especially Count William, have a digital copy of that flyer that was posted around Catonsville awhile back I would definitely start stapling those up around the place once I got things in order. If not, I should have no problem cranking one out myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Knight
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 312
My heater only has a slight curve to it because the wood was light and had a curve to it. The ones you're thinking of are made from a plastic barrel.

If good, free core is pvc / wood / bamboo / aluminum it is only a free (or an illegal) core.

If you machine sew or paint the cross on it will not take very long. I hand sewed my cross and I kept getting distracted. Plus double hemming took way longer than I thought it would.

Definitely try your geekier elements at school and around town

_________________
I sacrifice myself for the greater glory of God, for the honor of the chapter.
I kill for the greater glory of Mankind, for the honor of my masters.

Gloria propter victoriam, victoria propter mortem.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:28 pm 
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Knight
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:13 pm
Posts: 671
When you say you want to start a Templar unit do you mean a branch of us? Or, do you mean that you wish to do your own thing?

anyway I'm gonna ramble..
Dap is the cheapest and stronger than anything for weapon building

Double sided tape requires no skill and is very fast but is not the strongest bond (It's not good for foam to core bonds) It's also expensive requiring roughly a 3$ roll for every other sword or so.

Spray glue is quick and somewhat cheaper than tape.

PVC is not good in the winter, some people say it works just fine I've had some last and some shatter. I don't use it anymore cause it's not worth my time to build a sword that might outright break after the first battle. PVC is forgiving to noob weapon smiths so long as you get three layers of foam on there.

Fiberglass is expensive compared to PVC costing around 1$ per foot. 1/2" round cores will last you for a long time and can go through quite the beating, outlasting many lives of foam. They require a touch more skill to get them to be there best though. (you can also build a 4' red sword on 1/2" fiberglass but not much bigger)

Curved shield cores most often come from plastic 55 gallon drums. They provide crazy good defense but ultimately hinder your offense, Make them if you wish but do not rely solely on them for shields.

2' Heater shields are by far the most economical shield type and they will encourage the most aggressiveness from players while also building on footwork and defense. You can build these shields on a 3/8ths plywood core using what's called the waffle technique in this tutorial http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=12052.0. you'll use less foam per shield as shields are very expensive compared to most gear.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:26 pm
Posts: 17
Again, perfect. I'll probably wind up using PVC cores, as I am a noob smith, and I need all the forgiveness I can get. And Richard, yes. I want to start another branch of the main Templar. Wouldn't dream of breaking off of the Templar.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost Estimates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Knight
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:13 pm
Posts: 671
Cool, I was just wondering since this is in the public side rather than Templar specific. It makes sense to get more opinions this way though.


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